Ecommerce Sales Tax 101 [Video]

Ecommerce sales tax is complicated, to say the least. Between economic and physical nexus, and changing regulations across 14 tax jurisdictions in the U.S., it's hard to expect any seller to understand sales tax right off the bat.

Ryan Thompson, CRO at TaxJar, offers some clarity in this episode of "Ask the Ecom Experts." Discover top recommendations for businesses, big and small, and the fundamentals of how ecommerce sales tax works.

Watch "Ask the Ecommerce Experts" Episode #4

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The Full Transcript

Skip to a Section:

• Economic Nexus vs. Physical Nexus (0:01)
• What Happens if You Don’t Comply? (4:45)
• Economic Nexus Laws: Then and Now (7:23)
• Marketplace Facilitator Act and the Role of Marketplaces (8:42)
• Key Considerations for Multichannel Sellers (11:25)
• How Does TaxJar Keep Up with Tax Regulations? (12:54)
• 14,000 Tax Jurisdictions...What Does That Mean? (15:04)
• Common Mistakes Sellers Make When Handling Taxes (16:52)
• What You Need to Know If You Have a Diverse Product Catalog (19:18)
• How Do You Determine Which State a Transaction Occurred? (21:20) 
• 10 Rapid-Fire Questions (22:44)

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Economic Nexus vs. Physical Nexus (0:01)

Pauline Shiu - Director of Marketing, Zentail
Hi, everyone. You have Pauline here with Zentail for another "Ask the Experts" interview session. I'm really excited to speak with Ryan Thompson from TaxJar today, who's gonna cover off on a lot of things ecommerce. Ryan, welcome. 

Ryan Thompson - Chief Revenue Officer, TaxJar
Thanks. Great to be here.

Pauline 
Awesome. So, you're in the hot seat. We're gonna talk a lot about taxes. As you've got a ton of experience in ecommerce as cofounder and CRO of TaxJar, I'm sure we can pick your brain for hours here. I think what's really interesting is the South Dakota Wayfair ruling changed a lot. What would you say was the largest impact on ecommerce sellers?

Ryan 
Yeah, in 2018, when this all came to be a bit of reality, we were skeptical that this was going to happen and we weren't in favor of it either. Because we knew that if this was going to happen, it was gonna change the lives of ecommerce merchants, especially the small ones for the worse, and it didn't seem fair to us. 

But essentially what happened was [as sellers] were expanding ecommerce and multichannel, they were selling more sales in more states. And the old rules were that you only had to deal with sales tax hassles in the states where you had what we call a ‘physical nexus.’ So where you were physically located, as an ecommerce owner (or, if you had warehouses or employees), those were the states that you had to worry about for sales tax, and the rest you didn't. When the Wayfair change happened, basically what that meant was that each state now could set a threshold that said, "Even though you're not located in my state or you don't have people, employees or warehousing in my state, once you hit this threshold, all of a sudden you have the same sales tax obligations to collect and remit as somebody who's physically located." 

So we had hundreds or thousands of merchants that before they only had to comply in one or maybe two states. And that just blew up to where now, many of them are complying in 20, 30, 40 states. And from a logistics and management perspective, it's been a nightmare for them.

Pauline 
Yeah, I can only imagine. So, in the beginning, especially, it was very unclear as to what each state's policies were. It seemed like there was a pretty generic timeline for when you had to get it in. So how have sellers been adapting? Clearly, it's been some time since they really came out. But whether you're using TaxJar or not, what is a seller's first step? 

Ryan 
I would venture to guess that compliance based off of Wayfair is still all over the place. We talk to merchants every day, and they don't understand it and I can't blame them. But one of the big challenges within sales tax is that all of the sales tax legislation is at a state-by-state level. So there's no federal jurisdiction at all for sales tax. 

When Wayfair happened, it was left to the states to decide what their rules were going to be. So, you can imagine, most states kind of got this idea of, "It's either gonna be the number of transactions in my state or it's gonna be the dollar sales in my state, or some combination of both." But even within that, some states would say it's X number of transactions and this amount of sales. Some states would say it's transactions or amount of sales when you hit the threshold. Some would look at trailing 12 months, some would look at year to date. So even within that, it's almost impossible. One of the ways that we tried to help is, as soon as we found that the ruling went through, part of what TaxJar does is we ingest all of the seller sales data and then help them with sales tax compliance. 

We were in a position where we could see all of their transactions and basically use that data to help them understand where they now have economic nexus or where they're approaching it. So, if we saw that a [state’s threshold was] 1,000 transactions...and we could see that they were at 800, we could say, "Hey, you're 80% of the way there—something to put on your radar." Outside of having tools like that or the ability to download your transactions by state into a spreadsheet and do some manipulation to figure it out, there still is no easy answer. It's still a very unfair problem that these merchants have been faced with.

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What Happens if You Don’t Comply? (4:45)

Pauline 
Yeah, it's huge. So what are the big risks and penalties for someone who is not compliant? Is that also on a state-by-state basis, and how severe does it get?

Ryan 
Yeah, we talk about this all the time. We've seen two ways to approach this, especially when people are giving advice to merchants on how to handle sales tax compliance. One is fear, which is, if you're not compliant in every state, you're in trouble—which I don't think is the reality. And the other one is more around your willingness to take a risk, which I think is much more realistic. 

So the way that I think about this is that when you are starting a business—or maybe you're approaching economic nexus thresholds in a state—what you have to think about is, what is your willingness for the state to come to you and say, "Hey, we think that you should be complying and you're not"? And so, if I were to play a scenario where if you're a merchant who is selling, say, $1,000 of merchandise in the state where you should be collecting sales tax [and] you're not collecting, say, 7% of that (so 70 bucks or whatever that is). The question that I would ask the merchant is, "Are you willing to have to come out of pocket for that $70, plus interest in penalty which, combined, maybe those are 10% or 15%. Or, are you willing to spend the upfront effort to be compliant?" 

So a merchant that has an exposure of 100 bucks—maybe a couple of hundred bucks—if I'm in their shoes, I would probably say, "I don't know if that compliance is worth my time right now. I'm willing to take the risk." And by the way, when you look at the auditor on the other side of the table, their job is to go bring in revenue for the state. So how much time are they gonna spend chasing this hundred-dollar fee versus a merchant who might be out of compliance for a million dollars? So that's the mindset that I try to pass on, is it's really about what is your risk tolerance, and then maybe try to do some math around where you're approaching that risk tolerance, and then focus on those states first on where to be compliant.

Pauline 
That makes sense. 

Ryan 
The one other thing that I would throw in is always be compliant in your home state. So, where you're physically running your business out of or if you have your inventory stored at home or wherever it might be, you don't really have an excuse on why you're not compliant in your home state. So, as you're spinning up your business, it always makes sense to be compliant in your home state first.

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Economic Nexus Laws: Then and Now (7:23)

Pauline 
That makes sense. Going back real quick to nexus and approaching the limit, what are people's strategy? So in line with the risk, are companies saying, "Oh, look, we're approaching to 80%, let's calm down sales, potentially, in that area," if they have the ability to, or they're like, "Let's bring it home all the way"? 

Ryan 
We don't see that scenario come out as much. What we have seen is there have been states where, especially as they were kind of working through their version of the economic nexus rulings, they would come out with a legislation and you would look at it, and it would just be nonsense. We would have merchants come to us and say, "You know, I'm selling products in Texas. Should I just turn off all sales in Texas because this is way too confusing?" So that scenario has come up before. 

I think now things have kind of balanced themselves out where merchants have learned, "Look, if I'm doing well in the state, the thresholds in those states are typically more than $100,000 of sales, or a couple hundred thousand dollars of sales." So, from an economic perspective, it probably doesn't make sense to try to peel back your growth in a state or turn off a state. At that point, what we see is they're in a financial position where figuring out how to become compliant ends up being worth the time and they just kind of work through it.

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Marketplace Facilitator Act and the Role of Marketplaces (8:42)

Pauline 
Yes, okay, great. So caution in the area where you are physically located. In the era of FBA and 3PL distributors, does that apply for them as well?

Ryan 
Yeah, so the other interesting ruling that has kind of followed Wayfair is the Marketplace Facilitator Act. And this one is probably a little bit less understood or known. But essentially, what has happened is that state governments have come out and said, for large marketplaces like in Amazon, "We would rather see Amazon collect and remit on behalf of the Amazon sellers than have each seller be responsible for themselves." And you can understand why this makes sense. Because if Amazon has 100,000 merchants or more in a state like California, it's much easier for the state to go have a conversation with Amazon than to go have a conversation with 100,000 merchants. 

So I think it's around 30 states now that have adopted some kind of marketplace facilitator ruling, where the great thing for the merchants—and again, this is from a TaxJar perspective—the more merchants that we work with, the better for our business. But the right thing for the merchants who are selling in these marketplaces is to try to pull this obligation off of them. So this is a great thing. And what we'd like to see is that where marketplaces exist—that in states where marketplace facilitator rules that govern them—that if this obligation can go away from the sellers and just be dependent on the marketplace like Amazon, the burden for that seller actually goes away, which is a good thing.

Pauline 
Yeah. That is a huge relief, I think, to a lot of people out there. You're correct in that, I was less familiar with that one, and that goes a long way. So what else? To be clear, it does sound like if you work with a 3PL, that would still fall under grounds of nexus in a physical sense. 

Ryan 
Yeah. So the definition of a marketplace is largely around the sale. So if  you're listing a product with other merchants on a place where buyers can buy, that's where the marketplace facilitator rules apply. In terms of 3PL, in terms of warehousing, those types of rules, you still have to abide by. If you're selling 3PL and you have a shopping cart, then you have to look at rules like economic nexus or physical presence in a warehouse and abide by those sales tax rules.

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Key Considerations for Multichannel Sellers (11:25)

Pauline
Got it. Great. So, anything else kind of relevant for marketplace sellers?

Ryan 
What we see more often than not is that there's this combination. So, we have tons of merchants, as you do [at Zentail], that are multichannel and they're selling in some combination, right? So you have your Amazon store, and then you have whatever cart that you're using. And so, while a portion of your sale may be covered under marketplace facilitator, what you need to look at is what is the rest of your business? So the way to think about it is, if you have a multichannel [business], you look at it channel by channel to figure out what are the channels that I'm selling in, and where will the marketplace facilitator take care of me? And then what are the channels that I'm selling on where my sales tax obligation is up to me? 

So, again, I'd like to think marketplace facilitators solve this pain point for merchants. It does in some channels, in some states, and that's a good thing. But the merchant is left to go figure out where that applies and where it doesn't. 

I don't know if it's helpful, but we have a lot of blog content where we will keep up with these rules state by state. So, we will show in which states marketplace facilitators apply, or what economic nexus thresholds are state by state, just to try to help merchants understand where they need to be compliant or where they're covered by the states.

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How Does TaxJar Keep Up with Tax Regulations? (12:54)

Pauline 
Absolutely. Whenever we [at Zentail] do research, that's the first place we go. So, we are well aware, but we can certainly link to [TaxJar’s blog] for everyone else who is listening today. 

There are a lot of moving pieces, it sounds like. So how are you guys keeping up with all of that?  

Ryan 

Yeah, the reality is we spend a lot of time here. We have an in-house team of sales tax researchers and experts, which has grown significantly over the years. And this is what they do all day every day. And this can be things like following marketplace facilitator rules, following changes in economic nexus. Even with COVID, a lot of the states came out with extensions for sales tax filing, and we monitor and track and report on all that, so merchants can understand. 

But, even before all of that stuff, the numbers that are thrown around, is there are something like 14,000 different sales tax jurisdictions in the U.S., and those change all the time. So, every month, we're monitoring all of the rules by state and making sure that our technology keeps up with those changes. 

There are rules for product tax codes. So, the example in New York, if you're buying clothing that's under $110 per item, that's not taxable. But once you go over $110, that's considered a luxury item. So it becomes taxable, and there are thousands and thousands of rules like that, too, state by state. 

So, this is an area where, when we started the business, we didn't know how complicated this was. Who knows if we knew how painful this was, where we'd be right now, but we came into it a little bit naive, and part of building the company is we've just had to build the team to be monitoring and watching this all the time.

Pauline 
Absolutely. It sounds like you guys are fluid, flexible, but then also passionate, right? So I think that helps you guys go a long way.

Ryan 
Yeah, or we find the people that are passionate about this and bring them along.

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There Are 14,000 Sales Tax Jurisdictions in the US...What Does That Mean? (15:04)

Pauline
Very good, sounds like a fun ride. So, 14,000 jurisdictions, I can't even wrap my head around that. So, clearly, last time I checked, I think we have like 51, 52 states/provinces. Where are the other 13,900 jurisdictions? 

Ryan 
So the way sales tax works is kind of interesting. Well, it's interesting to us in the business. So, typically, what happens is a state will create a sales tax rate. And then the jurisdictions within that state will kind of have their add-on. So a county within a state might say, "Hey, on top of the state rate of 5%, we're gonna add a county rate of 2%." And then within the county, there might be a school district, or a fire district, or an ambulance district. They may kind of all layer on their percentages. So, when I'm sitting in my home, my sales tax rate might be 8.5%. 

But the way that that is built is by a state rate, plus a county rate, plus multiple potential local rates. So when I sell something, if I have to collect at my location, then I would collect that 8.5%, and then when I remit that to the state, they basically figure out how to break that out across the state and all the jurisdictions. So, the way that you get to 14,000 is by looking at all of those permutations across all of those small jurisdictions across the country. 

Pauline
That makes sense. So the jurisdictions all bubble up to the state tax. It sounds like they're being charged a state tax, in addition to [another tax], in addition to [another tax]?

Ryan
That's right. Yeah. The good news is that you only have to collect once, and then it's all on the back end to figure out how that money gets allocated. 

Pauline
See, there's good news to taxes. We just got it!

Ryan
(Laughs) A few here and there. 

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Common Mistakes Sellers Make When Handling Taxes (16:52)

Pauline 
That's great. So what are some common mistakes that sellers have when approaching their taxes?

Ryan
So there are a bunch. Most of them are around accuracy, which, at the end of the day, is something that we try to manage to take off their plate. If I were to talk about a few that are kind of the more critical ones, the number one mistake that anybody could make in sales tax is to collect sales tax but not remit it to the state. Basically, what that's doing is fraud. So, before you're set up to collect in the state, don't collect in the state. There's a process that you go through where you tell the state, "Hey, I'm collecting sales tax," or, "I'm planning on selling in your state, I need a seller certificate or whatever it is with a number," and then the state knows, "Hey, you're going to be selling in the state, it's okay to collect now." So that's the number one “do not do.” That's literally, I think, the only thing that you can do in sales tax that could have you end up in jail.

So everything else below that becomes, not menial, but much more manageable. At that point, things like, this is the conversation that we had a little bit earlier is, "Am I collecting in the states where I should be?" So, thinking about physical nexus, thinking about economic nexus, and then kind of applying that risk tolerance to think about, "Where should I be collecting?" That's probably the second biggest concern. So, the scenario that we don't want to see sellers get into is the surprise of, "Hey, I sold millions of dollars of sales in a state, and I just haven't collected yet." Because then when the state says, "Hey, you owe us $100,000," the merchants aren't gonna go back to the [buyers] to collect that sales tax. That's gonna come out of pocket, and that's a problem.

So those are probably the two biggest concerns around sales tax when you get into, "Am I categorizing my product properly to where the sales tax rate could change a little bit?" or, "Am I doing something where my sales tax calculation rate is off by a quarter of a percent?" Those things happen all the time. At the end of the day, those are less concerning than the couple of big ones that I mentioned.

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What You Need to Know If You Have a Diverse Product Catalog (19:18)

Pauline 
Got it. That makes sense. I love offering people advice on how to stay out of jail. So perfect. So the 14,000 jurisdictions, if I'm correct, there's also different sales tax per product categories, right?

Ryan 
Yes, this is true. So, I don't know how you do this math, but I guess that probably makes this an exponentially harder challenge.

Pauline 
Yeah. So we find a brand selling kind of one thing, sales tax is pretty straightforward. But if I have a shop that sells a variety of items, like, pick a product, and it's different than the next guy... 

Ryan 
That's right. So, if you have one product, you'd be responsible for figuring out if any state has rules for that product, which at the end of the day, there are 45 states that have sales tax, so at worst you have to figure out 45 different solutions or rates. And then when you have 10 different products, that becomes 10 times as difficult. So, there is complexity around this. This is maybe a shameless plug, but one of the things that we have recently launched is [what we call] Emmet, and it's AI that basically does this for merchants. So, what we've learned is when you look at the sales tax categories, these aren't all that clear either. You can get into nuances in terms of what types of ingredients are in food? And then that can change taxability rules or whatever it may be. 

But, we've established a pretty big database of transactions over the years, and the better that we're able to properly categorize those, we can apply AI and kind of do that categorization for merchants now. So, whether that's us or somebody else, the technology is being built, and we can figure out ways to make this easier. 

Where this should go is that sellers should be able to sell what they want to sell, where they want to sell it, and then let technology go figure out what is the right way to handle the taxes. I think the unfortunate piece is, the states aren't going to necessarily make this easier. The good news is, there are ways to do this with technology to make it go away.

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How Do You Determine Which State a Transaction Occurred? (21:20) 

Pauline 
Yeah, beautiful. That was awesome. I have one last nitty-gritty question just because I'm curious. And then I wanted to have a little fun with a little rapid-fire session with you. 

So the last real question is, what happens if my shop is based out of Maryland, someone from Pennsylvania buys something for someone in New York. Where is the purchase? And, again, let's talk about from my webstore as opposed to from a marketplace.

Ryan 
Right. So this can depend on the state. It may depend on what state you as the seller are in and what state the buyer is in. There are states that are what are called origin-based states. So, if you're in an origin-based state, then you collect sales tax based off of the origin of the sale or where your business is located. Most states are destination-based states, which means that your obligation as a merchant is to collect sales tax based off of where the buyer is. So assuming that the scenario that you just walked through is in a destination-based state, which is what most of them are, it depends less on where the person who is buying the product is. It depends on basically where it's shipped to.

Pauline 
Got it. 

Ryan 
So in most cases, it would be where you're delivering the product to...

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10 Rapid-Fire Questions (22:44)

Pauline 
Okay. That was both complicated and clean at the same time. All right, so we are approaching the half-hour here. Let's have some fun. 

Ryan, you wake up in the morning, what do you do? What's your routine?

Ryan 
First of all, I wake up painfully early, so I'm usually up at 4:30 or 5:00, which probably leads to my next step, which is coffee. So I get my quiet time from maybe 5:00 in the morning to 6:30. So I like to drink coffee, catch up on email, those types of things. 

Pauline 
Bingo. As a parent, I share the exact same routine. So cheers. I guess on the flip side, what about TaxJar keeps you up at night? What do you worry about the most? 

Ryan 
I feel like we've been a little bit lucky in that we've said our problem has always been about execution. I'm on my fourth or fifth or sixth startup now, and I think the typical challenge is, where do we find customers? Where do we find revenue? How do we find growth? And we've somehow come into a place where the challenges have been a little bit different in that, this is a really big, hard problem. So it's never been for lack of, like, figuring out what the next thing to do is. It's all been about, how do we do this so well that we provide a great experience and stay focused on solving the problem at hand? So I would say it's all about, are we defining the right priorities to execute the best that we can and make our customers happy?

Pauline 
Beautiful. Let's see, who has been a great mentor in your life? 

Ryan 
I have had a couple of phenomenal managers who I've worked for in my days. I'm thinking of one or two who are now investors in our company. I feel like I've always had a business mind, but I think I give a lot of that to the businesses that I've worked for and the leaders that I've worked under. So, that's probably where I think about my mentorship mostly. 

Pauline 
Very nice. Another personal one, thinking about your journey, has there ever been like an ‘aha’ moment for you or some kind of critical pivot point?

Ryan 
Yeah, there has. This is probably not all that uncommon, but for my first few jobs, I worked in big company stuff and kind of always found the next job and it felt like a better job, and I got to that job. I spent some time at Intuit and we acquired a company there, and I had the opportunity to run that part of the business for a while and learned a bit about entrepreneurship. I kinda got to a point where I felt like I had learned enough to where now there was a shift, where I'm like when I think about what's next now, it can either be going down path A, which maybe is more of what's the next big job within a big company. Or, it felt like it was the first time in my life where I could actually open up to new options. I didn't have to be geographically constrained anymore. It didn't have to be the next corporate job. I could think about being an entrepreneur, and I think that's kind of what ultimately led me down this path. But I got to that point where it wasn't as much financial, or I don't know, I just got to the point where my mind opened up and said, "You know, you can think about doing whatever you want next," and it was a pivotal moment for me. 

Pauline 
Exactly. That's huge. Congratulations. You hear about people getting the, you know, serial entrepreneur bug, and I think it's for this reason that you're just full of potential, and you get to create your own rules, like build something from scratch. That's awesome. 

Let's see. So, aside from tax software, are there any common threads you see amongst the successful businesses that you work with? 

Ryan 
So talking about customers at TaxJar, what makes them successful?

Pauline 
Yeah. Anything about their practice, how they built their company, anything about their teams. 

Ryan 
One of the things I see a lot is in owners or founders of businesses, the kind of grit, competitive, "I'm not gonna fail." And I see that in our customers. I see that in partners. I see that in the way that our investors look at people. And I think where people just refuse to lose and have the grit that they know there are gonna be hard times and they're just gonna find ways through it, that's important to me. 

I think the other one I think about is being practical about how to grow. And, again, whether that's for our business or for merchants selling online, I think a lot of people go into business expecting one thing, and the successful ones come out with something that looks different. For a merchant, whether that means you end up selling a different product than where you started or maybe you started out selling in a marketplace and you ended up multichannel across 10 platforms, those are just the things where you don't know what it's gonna look like on the other end. And when you start the business, as long as you're open-minded about what success looks like, and you're able to try new things and follow a path—I see that those are signs for success. 

Pauline
That's awesome. That's great. So it sounds like open-mindedness is key. Is there any other advice you have for a small team looking to grow and to scale quickly? 

Ryan 
Yeah. I could think of so many. When you talk about a small team, there comes a point pretty early on where you realize that the team is so much more important than an individual. And we know we're a bit bigger, but I don't think that has changed, where, as soon as you start hiring people thinking about, when you get the right people, you know it, and they start moving the business in ways that are better than probably you ever could. I feel like I've been lucky to where I've built out teams and been able to hand off chunks of what I do to people that are just way better at it than I am. At the end of day, one person can't build a big business. And so what that means is, as soon as you start hiring people, you have to find the right people with the right cultural fit, the right passion, and the right experience or a way to get to that experience. And that's what moves the business forward at the end of the day.

Pauline 
Awesome. I love that so much. All right, so we'll get a little bit lighter. I realized those are pretty heavy. What is your favorite food?

Ryan 
I guess I gotta go sushi. I'm a sushi guy, which, by the way, being in the middle of Colorado is probably not the best place for it, but it is what it is.

Pauline 
I hope you have some really good deliveries. 

Ryan 
Yeah, right.

Pauline 
What is an item on your bucket list?

Ryan
You know, I just checked one of those off this past winter. It was probably top of my bucket list, which was heli-skiing. So I got to do that for the first time.  

Pauline
You're in Colorado—why did that take so long? 

Ryan
I've only been here for two years, and I don't know, I guess the difference between getting in a helicopter and skiing versus on the lift is just significant to me. But, I think other ones for me are probably around travel. We've been to a lot of places, but there are a lot of places that I feel like we should have been by now, that we haven't. Italy is a place where I wanna go really badly and haven't been, so that's pretty high on my bucket list. Hopefully, COVID things get better soon, and we can turn that into a reality.

Pauline
Fantastic, and then you can heli-ski in Italy.

Ryan 
I guess you probably could, right? 

Pauline 
For this COVID period, do you have any goals, whether it's personally or, you know, with the company?

Ryan 
Oh, boy. I think if I were to look back, I would say survival in terms of managing chaos. 

Pauline 
Very well said.

Ryan
Honestly, not really. I guess my view on this is I feel super fortunate to be in the position that we're in. My family has stayed healthy, the kids are home, they drive me nuts. But, we've got some space, we're able to play outside. Like I said, everybody's healthy. So, I take it day by day, try to not let it get to me too bad and just know that the end will be here and we'll get through it.

Pauline
Exactly. Very good. Okay, so let's pretend like that end is here. COVID is a thing of the past. You're free to go outside. What's the first thing you're gonna go run and do? 

Ryan
I mean, probably travel somewhere. We try to get outside and go for hikes and ride bikes and do all those things. So like I said, I feel fortunate to do those things, but I haven't been on a plane in a while. And so it'll either be to figure out a cool place to fly to, or get a bunch of family and friends together. Most of my family is on the East Coast. I haven't seen them in a while. So, maybe I could have like a big shebang, a hundred-people gathering and have a good time. That'd be pretty good.

Pauline 
Very good. Awesome. You are not alone in either one of those, so you can come visit us in Maryland. We'd love to have you and we'll have a big bash here. 

Ryan
I wouldn't tell you who my football allegiance is because I don't know if I'd be too welcome in Baltimore, but that's okay. 

Pauline 
Yes, something in Pennsylvania, with some stars, little black and gold.

Ryan 
I grew up in Wheeling, West Virginia, and Pittsburgh was the nearest city. Not that I need an excuse, because that's my team, and I love them. But yes, you picked the right one. 

Pauline
Bring the towel. Awesome.

Ryan
There you go.

Pauline
All right, Ryan, this was an absolute pleasure. I learned a lot. I had a really good conversation. Thanks for sharing all of your insights. If folks are interested, I know that [Zentail users have access to TaxJar directly through our platform]. But if folks wanna get in touch with your team, what's the best way for them to do that?

Ryan
Yeah, you can email support@taxjar.com. I'm always willing to share my information too. I'm just ryan@taxjar. We love having conversations with folks, even if it's just around educating with some of the complexities around sales tax. So, yeah, get in touch there. The other thing I'd say is our blog. This may sound kind of painful, but we have a blog with more than 1,000 articles all around sales tax, which we tried just really hard to make it simple for merchants to understand these things. So that's another good resource for sure. 

Pauline 
Perfect. Thank you, and again, I'll be sure to share all that. Stay healthy. Looking forward to seeing you guys again in the future, and that wraps it up for us. So, thanks.

Ryan
Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. Thanks for the time.

Pauline 
Absolutely. Bye.

Ryan 
Bye.